Josh Braaten is the Senior Director of Marketing at Leadpages, where he oversees and supports a number of marketing channels while helping execute the company’s product vision.
A Quick Preview of the Podcast:
- How to make your checkout process easier for customers (you may be losing more than you think)
- How to avoid confusing customers and decreasing your average conversions
- How to make the purchasing decision simple
Tim: Previously on the all new ConversionCast.
Josh: We all have such a strong confirmation bias that what we’re doing is probably the right thing. We have an idea and we read things about it on the internet and we say there is no-brainer. There is no way this is going to hurt and I’m constantly humbled and surprised by how often that can really be wrong. I’m just happy that we were going to test in culture because we have ideas and we see what happens and then we work from there.
Tim: This is the conversion journey in 13 parts as told by the LeadPages team. In this all new series, you’ll hear what we do each day at LeadPages to find, convert and keep our customers. I’m Tim Page and this is the all new ConversionCast.
We’ve been on a little run on the all new ConversionCast now. The last two episodes we’ve had the Director of Customer Acquisition, Josh Braaten and he’s been talking about some various ways to increase sales specifically.
This is episode 10 and we’re going to be talking about really the last step before somebody has actually clicked that pay button before they’ve actually…the money has gone out of their bank account or credit card and that is the shopping cart. So Josh can you talk to just first about the results from today’s case study.
Josh: Yeah, absolutely so the results that we saw was a drop of 67% of our average order value.
Tim: Wow, okay. This is…A long time ago years ago when we first created ConversionCast we talked about how we were going to have episodes that featured drops and we didn’t end up having as many as I would like so this is why I’m really excited about this so we’re talking about really what to avoid.
Again, if you happen to have missed the last two episodes, you can go back and listen to them and get some sense of what leads up to this and learn more about what Josh does but I’d rather dive right in. So talk to just about not only what you did that caused that drop but also the idea behind it and what it taught just.
Josh: Yeah, absolutely so first of all this is the worst test hypothesis that I’ve had since being here at LeadPages and I’m just happy that we were going to be testing culture because we have ideas and then we’ll see what happens and then we work from there and when this test finished we actually called it earlier than what we normally would because we saw the damage that we were doing and we decided that we’re never going to do this again.
Tim: Yeah, that’s big and I just want to point this out for folks maybe don’t do a lot of testing. This is just a huge testimonial for the importance of testing especially something as important as your shopping cart. If you’re not testing you could be doing harm like this that you don’t know so definitely something important to point out.
Josh: So the harm that you do is actually with the intention of doing really great marketing sometimes and I think we all have such a strong confirmation bias that what we’re doing is probably the right thing. We have an idea and we read things about it on the internet and we say this is a no brain…there’s no way this is going to hurt just and I’m constantly humbled and surprised by how often that can really be wrong.
So we have two pages that are vital to the checkout process and that’s our pricing page and our check out page that doesn’t surprise anyone. On the pricing page we allow you to select your plan and also to select the billing duration whether you want to be monthly, annual or have our two-year subscription.
My hypothesis was we should allow people to pick that on the pricing page and then we should allow them to go ahead and make any number changes that they want once they get into the check out because more choice is good, right? That’s great we don’t want people to feel like they’re locked in.
The surprising results that we found was that we actually introduce anxiety into the final stage of the checkout process. We got people that were about ready to get out their wallets. They had their credit cards punched in there and we said, “Are you sure you want to buy that?” That was kind of silly move in retrospect. But that’s kind of what happened and then as we looked at it, the lifetime value of customers didn’t change at all so it’s not like we’re…the control was tricking people into buying a plan that they’ve then later regretted. It was just simply a matter of introducing a choice back into the decision making process that they had already made.
Tim: Awesome. Now before we go any further I have to mention that all throughout this episode and in the all new season of ConversionCast, you’re hearing what we do at LeadPages to automatically grow our email list and boost our sales every single day.
Well in my next webinar I’ll show you exactly how to do this for your business. In this free training, I’ll give you a live step by step walkthrough of the top three tactics we use at LeadPages to automatically grow our own list week after week. This is going to be everything you need to note to implement this in your business so make sure you check it out. To reserve your spot on the webinar text LeadPagesLive to 33444. That’s all one word LeadPagesLive to 33444 or had the leadpageswebinar.com.
All right let’s get back to it and really giving them the opportunity to second guess their decision, right?
Josh: Yeah, absolutely.
Tim: Because they get there and they see. “Oh I pick the one year plan but do I really want to do a year like maybe monthly, who knows what can happen in the year,” or like, “Maybe I want to do the two year. It is the savings. I just don’t know. Maybe I should come back and think about it.”
Josh: Yeah absolutely. It was just a simple as a feel being great out versus being a drop down. We have the feel that basically said here’s the plan you picked and it was kind of great and you couldn’t select it. It was just displayed and then in the challenge or variation you can actually click that field and there’ll be a drop down and you could select from a lower level and it didn’t change to conversion rates but we dropped our average conversion or our order value by about two thirds.
Tim: That’s wild.
Josh: I’m curious how this connect with something like a lot of times you see folks that are doing marketing online where they’ll have something like a check box where they can add something to their order for an additional small amounts. That often comes not on the pricing page but on the check out. Do you think that that also can have that same effect of anxiety like do I want to check? Do I want that extra thing for seven bucks and I know that again I’m just not in big in speculation but it’s worth talking about. Do you think that the potential anxiety that that can add is worth whatever number of people that do end up adding that extra thing and increasing revenue by a little bit?
Josh: I mean it’s definitely worth testing. I think ultimately what you’re looking to do is get a consumer in what’s called a flow state where they recognize that they want something and then they go down that path and then the next thing you know they’re done purchasing it. They’re not thinking about it. They’re looking at the content and they’re saying, “Yup, yup this is great. Here’s my credit card.” Boom done and so like in episode 8 we talked about the market sophistication levels to try and help you find that point at which your consumer says, “Oh, yeah that’s what I want.”
Then episode 9 we talked about getting people into the validation about [0:07:43] [Indiscernible] has everything I need and then this episode is kind of the opposite of the last episode where we’re saying, “Okay say everything you need to say but then don’t say anything more, right?” Don’t let them…don’t introduce a choice that they already made. If you want to introduce a new choice that will increase the benefit or the value that they’re already experiencing so for example if you sell a really expensive DSL, or camera for like 2 grand and then on the upsell right before they purchased you sell a $70 case or a $50 UV filter because you don’t want that new lens scratched or damaged then absolutely people would potentially click on that and that’s not about introducing a new choice that they’ve already…or an old choice that they’ve already made. That’s about adding more value and helping to make a another choice that further benefits the path that they’re already going down.
Tim: As opposed to asking them to reevaluate the decision that they’ve already made, unintentionally asking them to reevaluate but more of kind of inviting them to do so by saying you’ve really want a year plan…you know that kind of thing. I think that this really fascinating and it reminds me of my old school sales training that’s like don’t talk yourself out of a sale, right? Once somebody has said yes, shut up and sign the paper work. All right like that’s one of the things that sales people are taught pretty early on and it’s one of the hardest things to do because you get all excited if you got the sale.
In this case it’s in automatic process and we need to not build that tendency to kind of keep going into the checkout page and again I think that just the last thing to reiterate on this is that if you’re looking at this and you’re saying, “Oh I’ve got an upsell.” It is for some reason important for people to be able to change that decision at the very last second and pick another option for whatever reason it comes down to test to find out if that’s really what’s best for your audience. Does that make sense?
Josh: Yeah, totally I think it’s all about like the snow balling of value and getting people to continue nodding their head versus kind of breaking the fourth wall in a way and it just kind of like having people realize all of a sudden that wait a minute, I have to think again, going forward the snowball thing versus breaking the fourth wall.
Tim: Awesome. This has been a really fun series really of testing the point at which we’re asking people to actually give just money so thanks for spending this last few episodes with just Josh. I really appreciate it.
Josh: Thank you Tim.